Your past work is generally quite good, so just going to give you some constructive feedback here out of care. If you search the word 'shit' in this post, it comes up 26 times, with 'turd' coming in twice 😂 I think you have a message worth delivering, but I feel like this one felt off the cuff, un-workshopped, and could maybe be served with a more elevated voice or at least some condensing.
Don't feel bad though, from time to time we all make shit analogies.
dating has literally become enshittified thanks to the capitalist motivations that undergird most of modern life, so I personally took no issue with lana's use of the term. Also, Lana's introducing a newly-coined phrase, and I believe the repetition really helps it stick.
Sure, we can agree to disagree, nothing wrong with that. However
Just because dating apps (and all capitalist driven products) have devolved into digital septic tanks, it doesn’t mean someone’s writing about said matters need deteriorate in kind. So your argument is a false equivalence.
Your suggestion that it’s somehow good marketing to repeat the word shit 26 times does something seemingly contradictory to your premise - it positions you in good company with rest of the capitalist digital wasteland on which you harped - of choosing buzz words and branding over craftsmanship, the latter of which she is demonstrably capable of and the former I am suggesting she distance herself from.
I’m simply offering this critique here because I respect her enough to know she can do better. I think defending this incarnation of her work is a disservice.
Sometimes being the better friend means telling someone you care about that they have broccoli their teeth, not telling them that green is a good look on them.
You're on point here. You can't buy time, so don't waste it dealing with questionable behavior. Move on. Around 33 after I tuned my bullshit detector to hyper-sensitive, my dating life improved, and I found my wife.
Thank you, I really liked how you reframed some questions and helped me make sense of some things that are happening in my life. Now I only need to understand what's inside me that's blocking me from finding a woman and have a good loving long term relationship
I think it’s a little harder for men to rely solely on enthusiasm because traditional early dating dynamics require that the woman set higher boundaries. It’s really interesting seeing bad female behavior though because it makes me realize that so many members of both genders are just… kinda broken. What kinds of issues do you run into most frequently?
I mostly find women who like me but can't get closer, "run away" or can't create a bond and this makes it harder for me to express my feelings because there's no connection, but they end up going out with another man. My last experience is a mix of running away and can't create a bond, in nearly 12 months that I know her it's like we're strangers, in the end I decided to distance myself before knowing that she ended up going out with a man.
I have watched several friends MARRY and have kids with men who were in the beginning twitchy and inconsistent and wishy washy upfront.
And because of it I’m still not convinced it’s going to work out in the long run. I saw this K Drama where one of the characters said, “when it comes to a romantic relationship, your initial position lasts forever.” And to be honest I still think there’s truth to that.
Ok I want to amend my previous comment also to say: I am a little proud, and have an abundance mindset, so I think if someone has my traits it makes less sense to pursue twitchy men because it conflicts with my self-image and my strategy is certainly workable. There certainly exists all kinds of people with different frustration tolerances and dating pools to choose from, though. I would say that if “winning” is getting a man to marry and reproduce with you, perhaps i should interview one of your friends and ask them what their perspective is. Clearly, they have figured out something I haven’t. 😂😂😂
To be honest I’m probably the asshole but I’m still skeptical it was a win! I also hope I’m wrong because I don’t want their lives to blow up but some of the earlier stories were absolutely insane and it’s not like the end state is the altar or a baby so I’m always kinda curious how it’s manifesting today - now that they’re locked in they’re obviously not as transparent about what’s going on (and I wouldn’t be either) so anything I’ve heard is only post divorce when all of a sudden all of this crazy stuff is revealed. I too want to know how this plays out in the long game.
“When it comes to a romantic relationship, your initial position lasts forever” - I absolutely love this quote, thanks for sharing. Unfortunately, as a typical early-20s participating in online dating, this initial position usually ends up being some semi-awkward back and forth via text bubbles (not one-sided awkwardness, the whole thing is an awkward mess all around)
I mean, I am totally open to being wrong. Maybe I’m wrong - I would love to learn I’m wrong and that I should just pursue twitchy men more if that’s actually a good strategy. It would certainly be more straightforward than the volume of men I have to go through to find ones that I both like AND they show consistent early interest and effort. This is just the commonality i saw with men I have dated at least semi-seriously. Since I’ve never gotten married, I can’t speak to how it goes there. Would love for people who are in the twilight of their lives to chime in with anecdotes of how twitchy men fare late in the game.
I think the definition of "twitchy", and what you want longer term is really key here. On one hand:
- If you want to set an early filter by setting a high bar with "do they pursue me properly", you're going to screen out a bunch of guys early who would be wasting your time. "Can't be arsed to text me back" might be a good early proxy filter for "he's avoidant and is going to end up really checked out."
- On the other hand, at some point you'll be in the relationship and at some point it could even be a long term relationship. I think the skillset of starting a relationship vs maintaining a relationship of various ages are really different.
I like these articles but I think it would be helpful if you could give us an example of a "successful" relationship you have been part of. You continue to mention "good romantic partners" but based on your articles I cant tell that you have ever been in a long term relationship. They all seem to be very short term flings.
As a whole, men are more analytical when it comes to dating. A man has a list of wants (including soft wants like “attractive”, “fun” or “emotional connection”) and each woman is considered on the basis of how much of that gets met vs whether she’ll have him
There’s also inertia. Once something reaches “good enough” or “familiar”, many men put a very high cost on changing things up unnecessarily. This also means that most men are a little bit boring
In contrast, my observation is that many women approach dating more like finding a new coffee shop. There’s a desire for a vibe or experience rather than a cost-benefit analysis. But this means that they are far more willing to throw time and energy at someone who is tantalising but out of reach than someone who is a sure thing
A woman is more likely to go “maybe it will get better” when she doesn’t yet have the man she wants. A man is likely to go “maybe it will get better” once he’s made a commitment
Well, that's probably why dating apps seem so futile. There's very little to "see" there but looks and CV, while level of interest and effort don't really show online (and could even be perceived as needy)
No, I actually find it quite easy to discern some basic markers of interest with apps: whether someone uses premium features like “roses” “superswipes” “pings” etc, whether they write thoughtful first messages that reference my profile, speed and consistency of responses, how quickly they ask to meet me in person, whether they agree to my FaceTime screening, etc.
Still, after having dated pre- and post-apps, the latter very much feels like a warped-reality that makes it exceedingly difficult to connect legitimately (as opposed to, say, when it would happen at a bar, show, park, street corner, public space, etc.
That being said, Bumble is how I found my current GF and I pray to the god I don't believe in there's no going back :-)
The role of the man is to approach and create the initial opportunity for an interaction (this takes bravery, confidence, male traits). After that, it's the woman's role to chase and develop a relationship. Men who don't understand that either have no value, cannot approach, or misunderstand their own in a misandric society.
Eh. I like this less than your other posts. I think you're taking the wrong lesson from your past failures.
Sure, you couldn't argue someone into wanting to date you. But how is the answer to that gender roles? That implies that it would have been different if you were a man, but it wouldn't be. You can't argue someone into being interested in you. The verb for getting someone interested in you is seduction or flirting, and it is more emotional than rational. It requires an entirely different mindset.
That isn't to say that seduction works in all cases. There are some people we would never be attracted to. But I have definitely been seduced/charmed into going from a maybe to a yes. It's one of those open secrets, though, because it's rude to say you weren't that into someone at first, especially if that someone is a woman.
Very fair! Thanks for the thoughts to chew on! I think perhaps the first part of the essay should be for a different essay that makes a different point.
Your past work is generally quite good, so just going to give you some constructive feedback here out of care. If you search the word 'shit' in this post, it comes up 26 times, with 'turd' coming in twice 😂 I think you have a message worth delivering, but I feel like this one felt off the cuff, un-workshopped, and could maybe be served with a more elevated voice or at least some condensing.
Don't feel bad though, from time to time we all make shit analogies.
dating has literally become enshittified thanks to the capitalist motivations that undergird most of modern life, so I personally took no issue with lana's use of the term. Also, Lana's introducing a newly-coined phrase, and I believe the repetition really helps it stick.
Sure, we can agree to disagree, nothing wrong with that. However
Just because dating apps (and all capitalist driven products) have devolved into digital septic tanks, it doesn’t mean someone’s writing about said matters need deteriorate in kind. So your argument is a false equivalence.
Your suggestion that it’s somehow good marketing to repeat the word shit 26 times does something seemingly contradictory to your premise - it positions you in good company with rest of the capitalist digital wasteland on which you harped - of choosing buzz words and branding over craftsmanship, the latter of which she is demonstrably capable of and the former I am suggesting she distance herself from.
I’m simply offering this critique here because I respect her enough to know she can do better. I think defending this incarnation of her work is a disservice.
Sometimes being the better friend means telling someone you care about that they have broccoli their teeth, not telling them that green is a good look on them.
You're on point here. You can't buy time, so don't waste it dealing with questionable behavior. Move on. Around 33 after I tuned my bullshit detector to hyper-sensitive, my dating life improved, and I found my wife.
Love this! You win.
I’ve always been a good guy and find this article so righteous and brilliant that words escape me!
Thank you, I really liked how you reframed some questions and helped me make sense of some things that are happening in my life. Now I only need to understand what's inside me that's blocking me from finding a woman and have a good loving long term relationship
I think it’s a little harder for men to rely solely on enthusiasm because traditional early dating dynamics require that the woman set higher boundaries. It’s really interesting seeing bad female behavior though because it makes me realize that so many members of both genders are just… kinda broken. What kinds of issues do you run into most frequently?
I mostly find women who like me but can't get closer, "run away" or can't create a bond and this makes it harder for me to express my feelings because there's no connection, but they end up going out with another man. My last experience is a mix of running away and can't create a bond, in nearly 12 months that I know her it's like we're strangers, in the end I decided to distance myself before knowing that she ended up going out with a man.
I have watched several friends MARRY and have kids with men who were in the beginning twitchy and inconsistent and wishy washy upfront.
And because of it I’m still not convinced it’s going to work out in the long run. I saw this K Drama where one of the characters said, “when it comes to a romantic relationship, your initial position lasts forever.” And to be honest I still think there’s truth to that.
Ok I want to amend my previous comment also to say: I am a little proud, and have an abundance mindset, so I think if someone has my traits it makes less sense to pursue twitchy men because it conflicts with my self-image and my strategy is certainly workable. There certainly exists all kinds of people with different frustration tolerances and dating pools to choose from, though. I would say that if “winning” is getting a man to marry and reproduce with you, perhaps i should interview one of your friends and ask them what their perspective is. Clearly, they have figured out something I haven’t. 😂😂😂
To be honest I’m probably the asshole but I’m still skeptical it was a win! I also hope I’m wrong because I don’t want their lives to blow up but some of the earlier stories were absolutely insane and it’s not like the end state is the altar or a baby so I’m always kinda curious how it’s manifesting today - now that they’re locked in they’re obviously not as transparent about what’s going on (and I wouldn’t be either) so anything I’ve heard is only post divorce when all of a sudden all of this crazy stuff is revealed. I too want to know how this plays out in the long game.
I will post a note and see if anyone responds! I am dying to know now.
“When it comes to a romantic relationship, your initial position lasts forever” - I absolutely love this quote, thanks for sharing. Unfortunately, as a typical early-20s participating in online dating, this initial position usually ends up being some semi-awkward back and forth via text bubbles (not one-sided awkwardness, the whole thing is an awkward mess all around)
I mean, I am totally open to being wrong. Maybe I’m wrong - I would love to learn I’m wrong and that I should just pursue twitchy men more if that’s actually a good strategy. It would certainly be more straightforward than the volume of men I have to go through to find ones that I both like AND they show consistent early interest and effort. This is just the commonality i saw with men I have dated at least semi-seriously. Since I’ve never gotten married, I can’t speak to how it goes there. Would love for people who are in the twilight of their lives to chime in with anecdotes of how twitchy men fare late in the game.
I think the definition of "twitchy", and what you want longer term is really key here. On one hand:
- If you want to set an early filter by setting a high bar with "do they pursue me properly", you're going to screen out a bunch of guys early who would be wasting your time. "Can't be arsed to text me back" might be a good early proxy filter for "he's avoidant and is going to end up really checked out."
- On the other hand, at some point you'll be in the relationship and at some point it could even be a long term relationship. I think the skillset of starting a relationship vs maintaining a relationship of various ages are really different.
I like these articles but I think it would be helpful if you could give us an example of a "successful" relationship you have been part of. You continue to mention "good romantic partners" but based on your articles I cant tell that you have ever been in a long term relationship. They all seem to be very short term flings.
There’s a sex-linked difference here
As a whole, men are more analytical when it comes to dating. A man has a list of wants (including soft wants like “attractive”, “fun” or “emotional connection”) and each woman is considered on the basis of how much of that gets met vs whether she’ll have him
There’s also inertia. Once something reaches “good enough” or “familiar”, many men put a very high cost on changing things up unnecessarily. This also means that most men are a little bit boring
In contrast, my observation is that many women approach dating more like finding a new coffee shop. There’s a desire for a vibe or experience rather than a cost-benefit analysis. But this means that they are far more willing to throw time and energy at someone who is tantalising but out of reach than someone who is a sure thing
A woman is more likely to go “maybe it will get better” when she doesn’t yet have the man she wants. A man is likely to go “maybe it will get better” once he’s made a commitment
Well, that's probably why dating apps seem so futile. There's very little to "see" there but looks and CV, while level of interest and effort don't really show online (and could even be perceived as needy)
No, I actually find it quite easy to discern some basic markers of interest with apps: whether someone uses premium features like “roses” “superswipes” “pings” etc, whether they write thoughtful first messages that reference my profile, speed and consistency of responses, how quickly they ask to meet me in person, whether they agree to my FaceTime screening, etc.
Glad to hear!
Still, after having dated pre- and post-apps, the latter very much feels like a warped-reality that makes it exceedingly difficult to connect legitimately (as opposed to, say, when it would happen at a bar, show, park, street corner, public space, etc.
That being said, Bumble is how I found my current GF and I pray to the god I don't believe in there's no going back :-)
The role of the man is to approach and create the initial opportunity for an interaction (this takes bravery, confidence, male traits). After that, it's the woman's role to chase and develop a relationship. Men who don't understand that either have no value, cannot approach, or misunderstand their own in a misandric society.
Eh. I like this less than your other posts. I think you're taking the wrong lesson from your past failures.
Sure, you couldn't argue someone into wanting to date you. But how is the answer to that gender roles? That implies that it would have been different if you were a man, but it wouldn't be. You can't argue someone into being interested in you. The verb for getting someone interested in you is seduction or flirting, and it is more emotional than rational. It requires an entirely different mindset.
That isn't to say that seduction works in all cases. There are some people we would never be attracted to. But I have definitely been seduced/charmed into going from a maybe to a yes. It's one of those open secrets, though, because it's rude to say you weren't that into someone at first, especially if that someone is a woman.
Very fair! Thanks for the thoughts to chew on! I think perhaps the first part of the essay should be for a different essay that makes a different point.
Hilarious. Story of my life in my 20s.
So much wasted energy.
I’ve spent my afternoon bingeing your content. I’m turning 35 this year. We have similar battle scars XD
Haha very hard won lessons, I am sure. Glad you are enjoying!!
Love this, thanks for writing!
Yay, glad you enjoyed!
Thank you for reading! Glad it lined up with your experience.